As mentioned earlier my three oldest daughters attended a New Year’s Eve party hosted by our stake. (In our church each congregation is called a ward which is specified by geographic location. The next level up we have stakes that are made up of on average 10 wards) It was held for the youth ages 12-18. There would be a dance for those aged 14-18 and games for those 12-13.
They had a relatively good time. But that good time was soured by some inappropriate things that should not have happened. And while we usually try to teach our children to focus on the positive and not dwell on the negative there are times such as when moral standards are involved that one must make a stand for 100% adherence not just 90% (because 90% of the activity followed church standards does that make it a success?).
Mr. Ferrero Rocher dropped them off, and I picked them up at our agreed upon time of 10:30pm. They asked to be picked up then “Unless we call you sooner, Mom.” I walked in to find the building bursting with youth and leaders. There was a wonderful turnout! I first found Semisweet and Brownie in one of the classrooms playing a game. They said they were having fun but all the good games were taken by the older teenagers (those that were supposed to be at the dance).
I went into the cultural hall to peek in on the dance and to find the M.C. to tell him to announce someone left their car lights on in the parking lot. Before going all the way in I had to let my eyes adjust.
Problem #1: It was way to dark. In the Church Handbook of Instructions it states:
“Lights should be bright enough for people to see across the room. Strobe lighting and psychedelic lighting that pulsate with the beat are not acceptable. Lights on the floor, in the corners of the room, or spotlighting wall and ceiling decorations are appropriate.”
There were rope lights along the walls. That was it. You could not see who was dancing in the middle of the room. This is not a big gymnasium! The dance was held in the smaller of the church buildings.The subject of lighting at the dances has been brought up before. Some of the leaders said they tried having more brightly lit dances but the turnout wasn’t as high. I would counter – are they positive the low turnout was a direct result of the lighting? I don’t think they can pin point that as the only reason. I’m not talking about having daylight bright lights either. I know people won’t dance in that setting because they will be too self-conscious. But is it too much to ask that we can at least see who is on the other side of the room?
I found the M.C. He and other leaders were walking around the dance floor making sure those dancing were an appropriate distance apart. This is to help the youth follow the guidelines set forth in the For the Strength of Youth pamphlet (that outlines the standards we have for our youth) it states:
“Dancing can be fun and can provide an opportunity to meet new people. However, it too can be misused. When dancing, avoid full body contact with your partner. Do not use positions or moves that are suggestive of sexual behavior. Plan and attend dances where dress, grooming, lighting, lyrics, and music contribute to a wholesome atmosphere where the Spirit of the Lord may be present.” (Music and Dancing, pg 20)
When talking with the M.C. I did notice I had to raise my voice several decibals and lean in closer in order to hear him and to be heard.
Problem #2: The music was too loud. Again from the Handbook:
“The beat of the music, whether instrumental or vocal, should not overshadow the melody. The volume should be low enough to allow two people who are standing side by side to hear each other as they carry on a normal conversation.”
This has been a problem in the past. Granted it was not near as loud as the last dance! Then you could hear the music outside the church building before you even opened the doors. So there has been some improvement, but improvement is still needed.
Remember when Semisweet and Brownie said that all the good games were taken by the older teenagers? They said someone asked those teenagers why they weren’t in at the dance. They replied, “It’s too dark and loud in there.” Ding, ding, ding, ding!
Now in and of themselves problems #1 and #2 aren’t major concerns. It’s what happened next that is.
After the song ended, the M.C. announced about the car with it’s lights on and another song started up for the youth to dance to. When that song ended the youth started to disperse off the dance floor when the M.C. called all those who had been dancing to come back on the dance floor and pair back up with the partner they had been dancing with. He then went around the room dividing them up into teams. He lined the teams up boy, girl, boy, girl and said, “We’re going to play a game called Pass the Orange.”
Ever heard of the “Pass the Orange” game? If you haven’t I will direct you to this scene in the movie Charade that my sister-in-law informed me of. See anything wrong with that game?
I DO!!
Problem #3: Inappropriate game full of sexual innuendos. Here just a couple of minutes before the leaders were walking around checking dance couples to make sure they were a safe distance apart from one another but now they are telling them to play a game where they have to plaster their bodies to each other? Let me remind you again what it states in the For the Strength of Youth pamphlet:
“Dancing can be fun and can provide an opportunity to meet new people. However, it too can be misused. When dancing, avoid full body contact with your partner. Do not use positions or moves that are suggestive of sexual behavior. Plan and attend dances where dress, grooming, lighting, lyrics, and music contribute to a wholesome atmosphere where the Spirit of the Lord may be present.” (Music and Dancing, pg 20)
The game is considered okay because they aren’t dancing? What is the purpose of the game anyway?
When the game was announced you could hear an audible groan from some of the kids, some nervous laughter, and only a few “oh, this’ll be fun” comments. I could see Bon Bon and her dance partner talking to each other. She saw me across the room (the lights were turned up for the games – you know, so the youth could see what they were doing) and motioned me over. “Mom, I am NOT going to play this game!”
“So what are you going to do?” I asked. She and her dance partner looked at each other, “We’re backing out.” And they did. You should have seen the look of relief on the young man’s face when they sat down!
Some of the games and mixers that are chosen to be played at church sponsored dances are very inappropriate. Bon Bon told her sisters on the way home from the dance that now she’ll be known for being the “girl that runs away from the dance games.” She ran away from an inappropriate game at the last dance too.
It was musical chairs only there were boys on the chairs and when the music stopped the girls were supposed to sit on whatever boy’s lap they happened to stop in front of. After the rules of the game were explained Bon Bon let out a noise of disbelief, turned, and ran. Of course, she was laughed at but she didn’t care.
“My young friends, be strong. … You know what is right and what is wrong, and no disguise, however appealing, can change that [truth]. If your so-called friends urge you to do anything you know to be wrong, you be the one to make a stand for right, even if you stand alone.” (Thomas S. Monson, “Examples of Righteousness“, Ensign, May 2008, 65–68)
You may ask what’s the harm in sitting on a boy’s lap? May I remind you we live in Nevada where prostitution is legal and brothels are numerous, even in the small towns. One brothel has a whole set of billboards leading out of town that read something to the effect of (this is from memory as I haven’t been out that direction in a while)
“an ice cold beer” “straight from the tap” “a pretty girl” “to sit on your lap” each on a different billboard that leads up to the last one which advertises the brothel’s location.
Playing such games is not avoiding even the very appearance of evil. It is just “toning” it down all in the name of fun. That is exactly what Satan does – tells mostly truths with just one or two lies to lead you away by degrees.
We can do better. We MUST do better!
“We do not need to adopt the standards, the mores, and the morals of Babylon. We can create Zion in the midst of Babylon. We can have our own standards for music and literature and dance and film and language. We can have our own standards for dress and deportment, for politeness and respect. We can live in accordance with the Lord’s moral laws. We can limit how much of Babylon we allow into our homes by the media of communication.
“We can live as a Zion people, if we wish to. Will it be hard? Of course it will, for the waves of Babylonian culture crash incessantly against our shores. Will it take courage? Of course it will.” (Elder David R. Stone, “Zion in the Midst of Babylon“, Ensign, May 2006, 90–93)
We left the youth activity after this. The activity went on for another 2 hours. I have no idea if other questionable games were played or not. Knowing that even one was played was disheartening.
My challenge to the leaders of our youth: Create a dance that actually 100% meets church standards! Really, is that too much to ask? I know it can be done. You have provided other activities which were wholesome and fun. The church-sponsored dances should be a place where the youth won’t have to fear that their standards, the standards set in For the Strength of Youth, will be compromised.
I know there are people from my ward and stake who will read this. Just so you know our concerns were already voiced to our wonderful stake president and, thankfully, agreed with, which is why I feel comfortable sharing my views here in such a public forum.
© 2007-2010 Chocolate on my Cranium, LLC all rights reserved
I’m glad you wrote this. I’m glad you alerted the Stake Pres. (et al). I hope things improve in your area. You are BRAVE and right!
I was just discussing this very thing with my dh. We were talking about how the standards have changed so very drastically since we were young men and young women.
I don’t have a YM yet, as my oldest is just turning 12, but I fear for him even at church functions.
I am so enheartened to hear about youth (like your daughter) who have been taught in such a manner that she feels comfortable choosing a different path. Even if it is different than others who are of “like mind”. I applaud her and her ability and willingness to stand for what she has been taught is right.
I can only hope that I have taught my boys the things they need, to be the YM I hope they can be. Much like your daughter.
Thank you for sharing this with us.
Very interesting! I haven’t heard of this from my kids, but they say that occasionally “I couldn’t believe they played that song at a church dance!” Joni
This seems to be something that is becoming more and more of a problem. It shouldn’t be, but it is. Sometimes, we just want to be “like everybody else” so much that we forget to be who we really are. I think it is good to publish this so that others can see. Maybe it will help all of us to take a stand the next time this happens.
I agree with you 100% on all points. Good job in talking to the Stake Pres, and good job in raising your daughter to stand up for what is right, even when it is in a church setting.
Patty Ann,
Your comment reminded of this quote from Elder Christofferson’s October 2008 General Conference talk “To come to Zion, it is not enough for you or me to be somewhat less wicked than others. We are to become not only good but holy men and women. Recalling Elder Neal A. Maxwell’s phrase, let us once and for all establish our residence in Zion and give up the summer cottage in Babylon”
Even if we are a few degrees better than the world, if the world is slipping downward we are only a few degrees behind them on the downward slope.
When I was going to youth dances, about 12 years ago or so (ach, am I that old?) our stake put on great dances that both conformed to the standards and were well attended. The stake had a council of youth who had to review all the music together before it could be played at a dance. They had great, fun games, that mostly involved kids being silly, like a YMCA dance contest and lip syncing contests, nothing that forced you into awkward positions (literally and figuratively). The lights were definitely bright enough to see what was going on, and I remember having plenty of conversations on the dance floor. Before you could go to a dance you had to meet with your bishop and together you would both sign a For the Strength of Youth Pamphlet, and then you had to have it with you to get into the dances. The biggest challenge they had was getting kids to dress modestly, but they made a big deal about it with signs in the foyer and most of the time they wouldn’t let you in if you didn’t match the dress code. If I remember right, they even had some extra clothes so kids could change without going home. Our dances were a huge hit and would attract lots of kids from neighboring stakes (this is in California where neighboring stakes are a good half hour away) and lots of nonmember friends.
Towards the end of my years in high school the dances did start to die off quite a bit, which was really said to me since they used to be so much fun. I think the two things that killed it were there was a change in the stake youth presidency, and the new presidency did not involve the youth in the planning of the dances. A lot of the games and fun went away as a result and the music was no longer stuff that the kids liked. Plus, they decided to start requiring everyone to wear Sunday dress, which I think really pushed a lot of kids away, especially the nonmembers who were coming.
But, the moral of the story is you can have fun dances that also comply with church standards. It has been done! 🙂
I appreciate you posting this. I have been in YW and camp quite a few times and the kids may try to sound like they don’t like the “restrictions” but they usually would slip and you would soon see that they wanted and knew that they needed them. The youth need us to provide a safe haven for them that can be depended on.
No way! Isn’t the entire point of the New Years Eve dance/party to give the youth a place to celebrate with people their own age without getting into any trouble or temptation?!? The other comments here are worrying me, too. All my kids are at the beginning of Primary and I have no idea what’s going on with the youth. Gah! Are there seriously so many youth leaders who don’t understand their role that this is becoming a big problem? Boils my blood and I’m glad your stake will be addressing it.
And major kudos to your daughter!
I agree with you 100%. You have raised great daughters to stand up even at church functions. (which shouldn’t happen) I hope i can do the same with my little ones.
Tell your daughter that I’m proud of her.
It’s sad that your daughter has to CTR at a Church function! Good for her, though! We need more like her!
You don’t think it was intentional, do you? That would be more disappointing. There is always room for improvement to be sure, and it is good that it was addressed with the Stake President.
Stake dances are a favorite memory of mine from my youth (which feels like a thousand years ago.) We had themed stake dances, on one occasion the theme was the 50’s. Dana Mario (another one of your Alba cousins) and I dressed up for the theme, with bobby socks and keds for me, with a full skirt, ponytail, bright pink lipstick and bubblegum for both of us. He wore a white T and pegged levis with converse. We won the swing dance portion of the dance and won a 45 RPM record. What a blast!
I hope you gave suggestions along with your concerns, I hardly believe it was intentional, but inappropriate to be sure. I hope the next one is better, they can really be a great way to bring unity to the youth, it happens to be the way my husband was fellowshipped into being active in the church and being involved with the youth led him to the Young Adult ward, where leaders encouraged him to serve a mission.
We just watched the Charade movie the other night! That was a hilarious part of the movie but I can’t believe they would play that game at a youth dance!! Ew!!!
I agree with everything you say here.
Wasn’t the YW theme for 2008 “Be thou an example of the believers”? and for 2006 “Arise and Shine Forth”?
And for 2002 “Stand Ye in Holy Places?
I don’t have a child in the youth program yet (our oldest is 9, but we have more children following- so many years of YM/YW activities) and I worry about discrepancies in the standards vs. what actually happens at activities.
Thank you for setting an example and standing up for what is right.
A “lap dance” mixer game??…well-now!
Good for your girls for walking away from it! A girl’s gotta have SOME dignity!!!
About a year ago I drove some of the YW from my stake to a combined stake dance. Prior to going, we had received via e-mail a list of dress standards that needed to be adhered (it was a semi-formal dance). We got to our hotel room (nearest stake is 3 hours away!) and I was checking out their outfits, made one add tights, they were checking skirt length for each other, etc. We got to the dance, and well over half the girls there were not dressed in FSY appropriate clothing. There was cleavage, too much thigh, etc. Parents were dropping kids off and pulling out of the parking lot as fast as they could. There weren’t any leaders enforcing dress standards. It was very disheartening to me. Why take the time to send out the list of requirements if you arent’ going to hold the girls to it. My girls and I talked about it after, and they wondered why they bothered saying this happens at all the combined stake dances. I reminded them that they had to watch out for their own integrity and should be proud of themselves for keeping it intact. Anyway, thanks for this post. It is disappointing that our kids have to stand up for their beliefs at church!
About a year ago I drove some of the YW from my stake to a combined stake dance. Prior to going, we had received via e-mail a list of dress standards that needed to be adhered (it was a semi-formal dance). We got to our hotel room (nearest stake is 3 hours away!) and I was checking out their outfits, made one add tights, they were checking skirt length for each other, etc. We got to the dance, and well over half the girls there were not dressed in FSY appropriate clothing. There was cleavage, too much thigh, etc. Parents were dropping kids off and pulling out of the parking lot as fast as they could. There weren’t any leaders enforcing dress standards. It was very disheartening to me. Why take the time to send out the list of requirements if you arent’ going to hold the girls to it. My girls and I talked about it after, and they wondered why they bothered saying this happens at all the combined stake dances. I reminded them that they had to watch out for their own integrity and should be proud of themselves for keeping it intact. Anyway, thanks for this post. It is disappointing that our kids have to stand up for their beliefs at church!
I do not believe this is an isolated issue or minor problem. As young women’s president in our ward I was appaled at the standards kept at a church dance…no lights, loud music which I could hear BEFORE I crossed the street to the church, I couldn’t have a conversation in the foyer without shouting, immodest and inappropriate clothing, and popular music with lyrics I was shocked to hear in a church building. I can’t vouch for any party games because I didn’t stay long enough to see any. I was asked not to attend the dance probably because they knew I’d be floored over the behavior. I wanted to go home and cry. The spirit was not anywhere near the church. It fled before I entered the block of the church. How as a leader can I hold high standards for my youth and others regarding music, dress and appropriate ym/yw relationships when other leaders provide opportunities like these to destroy anything pure and holy in a church. It was worse than the worst school dance I attended as a youth. I said to my husband, if that is how church youth dances are then our children will never go to a school dance. Needless to say I complained and was told that nothing will change because it is more important that the kids come and they wont come unless the lights are off, the music is loud and songs they know and so they bend the rules a little….this was told to me by youth and by youth leaders. My daughter is turning 12 this year and it disturbs me to think of all the preparation I have to do to build her up before and after youth activities. Thanks for sharing and for standing up. I have found it is what I can do. I can stand and speak out for the Lords standards. Abinidi died for standing up and speaking out and only one person heard his words, but that one person made a huge difference. I hope that one youth will have new courage to stand up and speak out because a mom was willing to, or because your sweet daughter was willing to. Sometimes the Lord asks us to be that one.
I don’t remember having games at any of the youth dances I attended, but there were dim lights and loud music at some, as well as inappropriate dancing. I haven’t been at a youth dance in years though so thanks for writing this. Since my daughter will be in YW this year, it’s good to be aware of things to talk to her about and to be on the look-out for. That is wonderful that you were brave enough to approach your stake president and that your daughter knew better than to participate. Great things do come from small means sometimes.
I don’t look forward to when my children are to the age where they can attend church dances. I am quite uncomfortable with the whole idea. I would rather see youth learning to square dance or dance like they did when my mom was a young girl. I think people become desensitized to what is right because there is so much out their that is wrong. We don’t have a tv (by choice) and I like that my children find things offensive when they hear or see things that are not within our family values.
It is refreshing for me to know there are other LDS parents out there who are concerned. I know our prophet and apostles are concerned. We must practice “courageous parenting.”
Judi 🙂
This is why I read your blog, despite the fact that I don’t know you personally! Your commitment to your beliefs, to living the gospel that full 100%, is inspiring. I appreciate that example and I hope I’m learning to do the same.
Thank you for posting this! I hope that things in your stake get on the right track soon and I hope that a lot of youth leaders read this!!!! Way to go for standing up for yourself, your daughters and for the youth of the church:)
I can understand your concerns and I like how you backed up your worries with the strength of the youth pamphlet. I also think it’s important to recognize that the people putting together the stake dance were volunteering/serving the kids and stake. They aren’t perfect and were probably trying to do their best. There are so many lessons in church that aren’t perfect, so many activities, comments, advice from leaders that aren’t perfect either. But hopefully we can appreciate the intent and not disect each experience in such a negative way. The thought that came to mind, is that even though this wasn’t perfectly put together, it was still a much better option for kids to go to. There are much more dangerous and tempting places they could have been on NYE. That being said, I would still voice my concerns but along with some suggestions. I agree with the other person who commented and said it was probably not intentional.
My oldest is only 4, but when the time comes for her to attend dances I hope I remember to volunteer to drive–so I can see what actually goes on! How sad you have to worry about standards at a stake activity.
I think youth and youth leaders need to be more on guard today than ever–many of the sins and problems that were on the fringe when I was a youth are now openly accepted by society at large. And it only took 10 or 15 years.
My husband is the YM Pres is our ward and we were recently asked to chaperone a youth dance. I was worried because we would have to take our 10 month old baby with us. We were assured it would be alright. I was surprised but it was a good dance. My baby and I were assigned to roam the halls, but the music was hardly heard out in the halls and it was definitely not too loud in the gym, she fell even fell asleep at her normal time. The music was appropriate (if you like rock music, which I don’t, but no one wanted to dance to Bach and Beethoven, I tried) The dress standards were enforced. The kids were respectful and I didn’t even have any problems in the halls or class rooms all night. From talking to the some of the youth that night this is how all of their dances are.
I hear horror stories from some parents, but the leaders in our stake are doing a fine job. I am saddened to hear that this is not the case all over.
I am proud of you and your daughter. I will bet she was not the only one uncomfortable, but she stood up, and talking to the Stake President is the right way to fix it. I was horrified by the lap game even without the information about the billboards. That just made me sick.
BRAVO, Cocoa and especially Bon-Bon. Very well stated, and very good judgement, Bon-Bon.
It’s so hard when the only place my kids are exposed to Babylonian practices and cultures is at Church activities! 🙁 But so many members just don’t understand that perspective because they send their kids out into Babylon every day. So their excuse is something like this: “Well, it’s not as bad as {fill in the blank here}.”
I like the comment reminding us to look at the “Good, Better, Best” of what we can provide for our youth. Doesn’t the Lord’s Church deserve the BEST?
I’m so glad you did talk to the Stake President about this first. I only hope I can have the courage you and your daughter have to speak up, and not just be frustrated in silence. I appreciate your examples. 🙂
Thank you for taking the time to write this. Well done on many levels. You are a good example and excellent mother.
Good for you and good for your girls! You are raising righteous daughter of God… they know it and now everyone else does too. I’m am dreading the teen years…
I am so glad that there are women and young women who are willing to stand up for what they know is right even when it has to be done in a church-related setting (which is harder than a non-church setting, I think).
Way to be a courageous parent! I gasped at both games suggested! When I was a youth at a youth conference the leader suggested we play suck and blow with cards..I backed out and the bishop stopped it as soon as he realized what it was.
oooh hard one.
I still think a church dance (even if badly done) would be a safer place to be than a friends party or the like.
I loved dances as a youth and YSA they were such a big thing in the day. I really do think they have ‘lost’ their appeal amongst the kids in a way. Maybe dancing just isnt such a cool thing for everyone these days.
we didnt have mixer games at our dance growing up – they were purely dances, but we played games at youth conferences and ym, yw etc.
I dont think I ever played the orange game (lol) but I think I do remember playing the one with straws and lifesavers were you pass them along to one another.
The plus side that I can think of of these games is sometimes getting people to mix that usually dont. (not that I think the orange one is a good one, but some with some close interaction is good) as there is always the guy or girl people wont go near, or tease or just think ewww about or people in cliques who dont mix ~ playing games that gets you in to closer proximity with some people can get the youth to treat eachother more kindly I think
I remember playing a game (though I think we had to play it at high school camp, but I think I did play it in yw, ym ) was knights, cavelliers where your paired with a boy and someone shouts out the words and you either sit on his bended knee, sit on his back (he is like a table) or he scoops you up in his arms…… I know I definately played it in YSA, lol lol.
anyway yes to better lighting, yes to lower the music and better clothing standards.
and some people are just game players. Like I hate board games and play rarely but I love a good interactive game and was a bit of a flirt when I was younger so it would have been up my isle… lol I dont think it made me a bad person though….. that what is hard with the church… mixing so many peoples ideas. Someone probably thought the orange game would be a great icebreaker which perhaps it wasnt…
As our oldest (a boy) ventures into new waters with our church youth group, we are also facing some issues with appropriateness. He was a little put off by a particular ice breaker, for instance. I enjoyed the points you quoted – they have merit regardless of religious conviction (remember, I am your Catholic friend:) I do remember dances during my years in Catholic high school, where partners would often be reminded to “leave room for the Holy Spirit to have His dance!”
That is so unfortunate. I think leaders get nervous the kids won’t come if standards are held to, but as a youth I remember liking when the standards were held to and very uncomfortable when they weren’t. It’s up to the leaders to LEAD the youth, and if they do everyone will be blessed for it-even if it is counter intuitive.
It is sad that we have to be sure that the standards are being met even in Youth planned activities…but I suppose the alternative is that we don’t HAVE to send our children to NYE dances or any dances for that matter. There are other options, like having a party at home where your rules, regulations, restrictions, and mindful eye will be present the whole time!
Believe me when I say that the standard should never be lowered ever, and where we can help and encourage that it is met we should. I just don’t have time to find judgment in my concern. If I am worried about something as a parent for my children I will voice my concerns, but in my plain understanding and my “plane” of understanding I suppose I would just choose to leave my children at home or find other places for them to be if church dances are not the appropriate place for them to be. I could find plenty of reasons to complain and find fault, but I need to look at myself and my children first, because even in all of my trying…I know there are things we as a family could work on…we aren’t perfect…(gasp!) Otherwise in all of those reasons I could find a good enough one to decide to “home” church!
Thanks for the post. I’ll be on my guard even at church functions as my precious three children grow into adolescence. Growing up in Tennessee the stake held strictly to the guidelines and my friends and I always felt comfortable and had a good time. Hopefully, those things haven’t changed.
Interesting comments, and thoughtful post. We, too, have seen multiple problems with church dances–no more so problematic than in Utah. For some reason, all the dances are multi-stake, which in Utah, means hundreds of children. The dances are dark, loud, and more like a mosh pit than anything else.
One such dance was so bad that a 14 year old Mia-Maid with whom I am acquainted called her mother crying. The music was horrid, the dancing sexual, and when the girl’s mother looked up the lyrics to three of the songs, she was astounded that this would be played at a church dance.
The argument the youth leaders used (because she did, indeed, approach the Stake President about it), was “At least they are at the church and not out somewhere else,” or “This is the only way we can get them to come.” The leaders absolutely believe this, and they, unfortunately, are so soaked in the pornographic culture that they think the dances are actually clean.
Since we began to notice the immorality at dances (I remember my son saying that the kids pair off in rooms and have sex–that was in Texas, at youth dances), is that youth dances do not fit in with our family’s mission statement, and to participate in them would be an unnecessary risk for our family.
My children could not agree more.
In the end, if we feel that we need to relax our standards or play sexual games like pass the orange (and I’ve seen much worse), in order to keep the youth interested in church, then we have already lost them, or worse, we never had them.
And for those who want to refrain from “judging” or feel like it is a complaint when we want to stand up and say “Hey, this thing is wrong,” I would gently remind you that it is a commandment for us to discern between good and evil, and that the Lord has repeatedly told us that it would be within as well as without the church, and that, as recently as a few months ago, an apostle stated that all the mocking of the righteous would not be from without the church–that much would come from within. And finally, the words from Ezekiel:
“Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean….”
It is important to realize that Chocolate, nor anyone else I can see, is not condemning any person, but the wickedness that is among us…Elder Oaks stated this beautifully when he said:
“We can set and act upon high standards for ourselves or our homes without condemning those who do otherwise.”
While we do not condemn those who do otherwise who are not in our stewardship, we do condemn the wickedness. There is a difference, and yet, in today’s pornographically soaked morally relative society, even LDS people tend to be unable to see the difference, and therefore, refrain from discernment, much to the detriment of their children.
Having seen many of these children morally debased without any knowledge of their parents, and most of it happening at church activities, I can resoundingly implore all of you to take note of what is going on around you and have the courage to condemn the wickedness, wherever it may be found, while still loving all men.
Sorry if this ended up sounding like a rant. Bedrest and I do not get along….
Way to go, Bon Bon! My kids will forever admire you and speak of you with great admiration as the “girl who runs away from dances”…they are happy to know they are not alone!
I gently refrain from judging others, and highly encourage discernment, and will not participate in self-righteousness.
Thank you, everyone, for all of your comments and views. I appreciate reading each one. We voiced our concerns because we feel that certain things were not up to standards, even though some feel we are making a big deal out of “just a little thing.” Once you strike a compromise with ‘Babylon” or ‘Satan’ you have already lost, even if it is a “little” compromise.
Elder Richard G. Scott said, “An individual who cuts corners and justifies some departure from true standards, for whatever reason, finds that seeds are planted that produce problems later. Those problems are far more difficult to overcome than taking a correct stand initially.” (Do What Is Right, March 2001)
My husband and I were talking more about this last night. Yes the dance was better than where some of the youth could have been but it was also worse than where some of them could have been. And it shouldn’t be that way.
Kudos to your daughter for running from a bad situation. I wish all our youth were this brave!!
Just curious what proper church protocol is when you encounter a situation like this. In your case it was easy to let your voice be heard because your husband is the bishop. What would you say to others who see something but feel like their voice is not being heard?
My issue being children being fed candy every sunday in Primary and from the bishop. Would love to hear your thoughts on that because I haven’t “made many friends” voicing my concerns.
Love that you are raising strong women!
Mommymita,
That’s a very good question. I think starting with the ones directly involved first, then working up from there. Your dad would know better than me! 😀
As far as the candy being passed out in church that one will be a tough thing to do, especially with the recent changes in the handbook. Did you know they changed the protocol for that? It used to be only nursery and Sunbeams should have snacks for the small children while the other classes were only supposed to hand out candy or treats if it was specifically called for in the lesson. Now there is no mention of food in Primary – for or against – in the handbook. On the frequently asked questions site for Primary it specifically says the new Handbook overrides all previous Primary publications. And under food in primary it says to counsel with your priesthood leader for direction. All I can say is do your best and
Good luck!
You’re daughter should read the story of Vashti in the Old Testament. Esther Chapter 1. The king (drunk) called the queen (Vashti) to dance for him in front of all his nobles (also drunk). She refused. She teaches us that modesty is not just the clothes we wear, but the actions we take. Standing up and removing ourselves from inappropriate situations is part of our modesty!
I’m not LDS but I enjoy your blog, and admire many of your church’s teachings and standards. It is sad when a church-sponsored event ends up being a test for our youth to choose to behave in the way we teach them as opposed to the way the world would have them behave. Many kudos to you and your husband for teaching the difference between right and wrong, and kudos for your children for recognizing it!
My 16 year old daughter and I just read this… she was really suprised, and shocked. “That game is soo not appropriate.” she said. and she wants to invite you to our dances in Phoenix! lol! (dress code violations are hard to stop on our hot summers. thats been my biggest problem as a chaperone and mom.)
My husband and I have been attending YSA dances for about four years now. In general, the dress and the dancing are appropriate. When things get kind of crazy, we put on slow music – they don’t want to get too close!!! We were at a conference last fall when a very popular song came on. The lyrics seemed innocent, but I had just researched them on-line for my 12-year-old’s music collection & said no. I had to speak up to the emcee & let him know that the song wasn’t appropriate.
I admire your daughters for standing for what they knew to be right.